Sig P245 Review: Don’t Call it a P220
Nothing makes you feel more like a pretentious asshole than owning a Sig P245.
Sure, there are more expensive, more exclusive guns out there. But it’s the convoluted elevator speech—which invariably accompanies any casual discourse on the P245—that instantly turns you into a jaded, know-it-all prick:
“You might have heard of the P220 Compact. No? Well, the P245 is essentially a compact P220, but it’s NOT a P220 Compact. The P245 has a proprietary locking geometry with a traditional sheet-metal slide… blah, blah, blah…”
There’s really no un-condescending way to say any of that.
You don’t even have to try to sound like a douche. It just happens. It’s inevitable. You might volunteer at soup kitchens and foster autistic cats… but you can’t NOT sound like a bloviating horse’s ass if you’re talking about a P245.
Pretentious gun on a pretentious leather jacket
But here’s the thing:
As much as I enjoy pontificating about a pricy Euro .45 no one’s ever heard of… I don’t own a P245 because of that.
I own a Sig P245 because I believe it’s the best freakin’ compact .45 ever made. And that—my fellow pretentious gun hipsters—is what we’re here to talk about.
What makes the Sig P245 hipster worthy?
Conceived as the ideal compact .45, the P245 incorporates innovative design characteristics that not only distinguish it from the P220, but—in some ways—make it superior.
“This is serious.”
Those are the exact words I texted a friend, the first time I shot a P245—along with a picture of a perfectly centered, perfectly cloverleafed shot grouping.
Up until that moment, I had never shot a handgun that accurately. And while I’d owned a few Sigs and an HK P2000SK, the P245 was the first gun that really wowed me in terms of how natural, intuitive and precise shot placement could be with a handgun.
In that sense, the P245 ruined me. Because I always expected more from handguns after that. And while I’ve found other pistols that I shoot as well as the P245—including the Beretta PX4, the Walther P88c and the Sig P239…
I’m not sure there’s any gun I shoot better than a P245.
It always proves it can hold its own with anything. It always carves out ragged holes right where I want them. It was the first .45 I ever owned and it’s the last .45 I’d ever sell.
In fact, I sold my P220—because I simply prefer the P245.
From any angle, the P245 is a hell of a .45
And not just as a carry gun. Sure, it’s more compact and it conceals better. But for me, the P245 feels, shoots and handles… better. Not that the P220 is bad, by any means. But the P245, I think, brings a bit more to the table in terms of the subtle, intangible qualities that you just feel.
“Wait… isn’t the P245 just a P220 with a shorter slide and grip?”
Well, that’s what I thought too. But to get a better understanding of why it isn’t…
Let’s take a little trip down memory lane.
The Golden Age of Single Stacks
Ah, yes… the late 1990s.
Master-P still had gold ceilings in his house. The golden girls were still… golden. And, for the moment, the AW ban had turned single-stack pistols into concealed-carry gold. Especially in more “potent” calibers.
And while Sig offered their single-stack P239 in .40 and .357 SIG, they had no “carry-oriented” offerings in .45 ACP. Certainly, the P220 had been one of the preeminent DA/SA .45s since the 1970s. But in its “native state,” the venerable P220 couldn’t compete with officer-sized (i.e., subcompact) 1911s—or the new Glock 30—from a concealed carry standpoint.
So, Sig got to work… stat.
They took a P220 slide (which was still stamped sheet metal at that point) and chopped off about half an inch. Makes sense, right?
But then… things got weird…
The Franken-.45
Internally, Sig’s new compact cannon—dubbed the “P245”—shared little with the P220.
For starters, the P245 borrows the unique flat-wire recoil spring pioneered on the P239. In fact, the P245 takes the exact same spring used on the .40/.357 P239s (and the .40/.357 Sig Pros). So, it’s easy to find replacements for your long out-of-production P245, based on that.
The P245 uses the P239’s (.40/.357) recoil spring
The P245 also uses the P239’s unique barrel-lug geometry, which (apparently) is designed for flat-wire springs.
If you look at the camming lugs on a P245, you’ll notice how much farther back the fore-lug sits, compared to a P220. The P239 is set up the same way. In fact, the dimensions of the “camming slot” (the space between the fore-lug and the feed ramp) on the P239 and the P245 are almost identical.
L to R: P225, P229, P239, P245—very similar “slot” dimensions on the P239/P245
So, here’s what I think is going on:
A flat-wire spring compresses farther (deeper?) than a normal spring. In other words, it flattens out more. And since the fore-lug is what holds the back end of the recoil spring in place… they moved the fore-lug backto give the flat spring more room to fully compress.
At least that’s my crude hypothesis.
In any case…
It seems like the P245 is kind of a hybrid between an old-school P220 and a P239.
That’s probably an oversimplification.
But—at the very least—the P245/P239 share the same recoil spring and a similar lug setup. And, given the era in which the P245 came to fruition, I suppose it makes sense that they drew inspiration from the P239—which represented the cutting edge of compact/single-stack pistol design at the time.
P239 .357 + Sig P245: Big boomin’ bros
So, do you feel pretentious yet? Try explaining all that to the guy with the Hi-Point in the lane next to you.
Speaking of pretentious…
The Sig CCO
The CCO—or “Concealed Carry Officer”—easily qualifies as the most pretentious of all 1911 variants. Because it’s another one of those guns that necessitates an elaborate explanation for which very few have any frame of reference:
“The CCO combines the shortened grip frame from Colt’s officer-sized model with the mid-length slide from their commander-sized model. It’s really the best of both worlds.”
So then…
In case you’re not hipster enough to speak Colt fluently, I’ll translate: the CCO has a longer slide/barrel than a “typical” subcompact 1911, but it maintains the short grip of a subcompact 1911. So, you lose one round in the mag, but you still end up with a 4-inch(ish) barrel.
Just like the P245.
In that sense, the P245 is a DA/SA analogue to a CCO-patterned 1911—same size, same layout, same capacity. Yeah, the Sig design is boxier and slightly bulkier than a 1911. But not as much as you’d think—slide width is very similar: around 1 inch.
The Sig “CCO”—short grip + mid-length slide
Also interesting…
Colt’s CCO and Sig’s P245 were both released in 1998. Seems like there was some parallel evolution going on there.
Personally, I love the chopped grip paired with the mid-length slide. You get a longer sight radius, better ballistics and arguably better reliability (vs. a shorter 3”/3.5” barrel)… all with the concealability of a shorter grip. Plus, in terms of proportions, the shorter grip/longer slide just work, to my eye.
But then again…
I’m a pretentious hipster.
But you don’t have to be a hipster to appreciate torn-out bullseyes and head shots at 20+ yards.
“Full-Figured” Accuracy
With the P245, every shot feels… big.
Big boom. Big recoil. Big holes. But also…
Big feel.
The P245 gives you a phat, chunky blast that begs you to grab on and squeeze. Every shot feels rotund, curvaceous and voluptuous. Even juicy. It’s got big-bore booty for daaaays, bruh.
BOOM!
The SA break is crisp and predictable—like it is on all P2XX Sigs. The DA utilizes Sig’s updated strut/mainspring design, which makes it muuuuch smoother and more consistent than Sig’s earlier DA triggers.
BOOM!
The short grip feels precise and intuitive. The heel of your support hand indexes against the toe of the pinky rest, giving you optimal leverage and control during the big…
BOOM!
The slide kerchunks. The muzzle rises. The recoil is bold, bubbly and bodacious—but very fluid. Never harsh. Never uncontrollable.
It almost flows.
All but the biggest hands will get 3 fingers on the P245’s grip
BOOM!
In the cascade of tactile feedback that ensues, you can feel where and how your shots are hitting. As long as you “obey the flow,” the P245 will put rounds into the same exact hole. Shot after shot after shot.
50 rounds @ 10 yards—you can’t ask for much more than that
BOOM! BOOM!
It’s communicative. It’s intuitive. It’s uniquely satisfying. And it’s not entirely the same sensation you get with a standard P220.
P220 2.0
P220s are accurate.
Damn accurate. Some consider the P220 the most accurate out-of-the-box service pistol you can buy, in any caliber.
Yet—personally—I always shot my P245 better than my P220.
I’m not saying a P245 is necessarily MORE accurate than a P220. But I tend to think you get a bit more feel with the P245. And very little additional recoil, if any. I’d say the P220’s recoil impulse is exactly what you’d expect for an alloy-framed .45 in its size range. Whereas the P245’s recoil, on the other hand, seems a bit more…
Tangible.
The P245’s recoil is plush and bouncy… not unlike this pillow
Now, I don’t want to suggest that the P245’s recoil is necessarily “light.” It’s not. It’s a compact .45 with an aluminum frame. Physics are physics. If you want a really soft-shooting DA/SA .45, check out the Smith & Wesson 4506-1.
The point I’m making here is that the P245’s doesn’t recoil substantially more than a full-size P220. And, to me, the recoil you get offers a slightly better feel.
And that takes me back to the P245’s unique spring/lug geometry…
I tend to think the repositioned fore-lug—maybe—gives the slide slightly more rearward travel as the flat-wire spring bottoms out. This may provide a bit more “dwell time” at the back end of the slide’s cycle… which may contribute to the sensation of a slightly slower, more “tactile” recoil impulse.
This is all, of course, a hypothesis. From a guy with a degree in creative writing, not engineering. So, take it as such.
But…
At the end of the day, I think the P245 gives you more of that “plush” sensation you find in non-tilting actions—like rotating barrels and falling-blocks. And while it’s reeeal hard to compete with a Beretta PX4 or a Beretta 92 (or a Walther P5) in the “communicative recoil” department, the P245 is certainly one of Sig’s best.
So then… with all that in mind…
The evolutionary changes to the P245 (vs. the P220) make me wonder if it could/would have been the beginning of a more modernized .45 ACP platform—a “P220 2.0,” if you will. The flat-wire recoil system seems well-suited to the .45 and the P245 could have been the first step in that transition.
Unfortunately, the P245’s unique take on big-bore blasting didn’t last long.
My guns like to hang out in window sills
An Elegant Weapon, From a More Civilized Age
The P245 fades from the “gun hipster archaeological record” at some point around 2008. I suppose a 10-year run—’98 to ’08—ain’t a bad showing. But I’m not sure the P245 was in “full production” during that time.
From what I can tell, P245s were released in three main “batches”—possibly all from the same initial production run.
The 1998 Batch. These are entirely made and assembled in Germany, with “triple proofs” on the barrel, slide and frame. Mine comes from this batch (KJ date code). As far as I know, these all have standard blued finishes.
The 1999+ Batch. These, I think, were made from the same parts produced initially (in Germany), but they were assembled in the USA—so they’re not triple proofed. Some of these were blued. Some had nickel-plated slides (i.e., two tone).
The 2008 Batch. These were the last of the P245s. They had slightly different markings than the earlier ones, with serial numbers printed on the slides and barrel hoods. Some had an all-nickel finish (frame and slide), some were blued. It’s hard to know for sure, but even these may have originated from the initial production run in ’98.
There were also 75 “limited edition” P245s with Custom Shop markings. These, I believe, were among the last P245s sold in (after?) 2008. They fetch big bucks if they come up on Gunbroker.
Attack of the P220 Compact
Shortly after sunsetting the P245, Sig unveiled the “P220 Compact”—which EVERYONE assumed was just a P245 with a milled slide. And I suppose that’s not surprising… because the P245 and the P220C use the same magazines and share the same grip panels. They also look pretty much same—though at one point the P220C had a stabby-looking beavertail.
In fact, just about every forum post you find on the P245/P220C makes the assumption that they’re the same gun, just with different slides.
But they’re completely different, internally.
With the P220C, Sig eliminated the “P239-inspired” mechanics that made the P245 so unique. Frames, barrels and locking inserts will NOT interchange between P245s and P220Cs; but they WILL between P220s and P220Cs. Moreover, the P220C uses a multifilament recoil spring like the full-size P220, instead of the flat-wire spring used on the P239 / P245. However, it’s worth noting that the multifilament spring for the P220C IS slightly shorter and uses a greater number of braided filaments vs. the spring used on the full-size P220.
Springs from my P245 (L) and P239 (R)—same spring, but the P245’s has seen more rounds
In other words…
The P220 Compact literally IS just a chopped P220 (as the name would suggest). Whereas the P245 was a proprietary design, with a unique action.
I think simple economics probably presents the best explanation for Sig’s reversion to “standard” P220 mechanics on their mini-.45: they had to produce fewer “special” parts for the P220C, which I’m sure saved money.
So, does that mean they sacrificed performance / shootability on the P220C vs. the P245?
Maybe?
I’ve never shot one, but I’m sure the P220C shoots well and works well. But I wouldn’t be surprised if it lacked that extra bit of touchy-feely goodness that makes the P245 so awesome. How important is that?
Well…
They designed the P245 differently for a reason, right? Then they copped out and went back to their comfort zone. Probably just to save money—not because it was a better design.
Geez… I really do sound pretentious.
Concealed Cannon
But there’s nothing pretentious about packing big-bore power in your pants. And for that, the P245 excels.
To be clear: I think the P245 makes a case for itself on shootability alone, regardless of its size. It’s simply a great .45, by just about any metric.
Yet…
The P245 happens to also be one the best-carrying Sigs you can get.
The P245’s grip is actually a bit shorter than a P239’s grip. It really disappears, even under a T-Shirt. Plus, the slide is fairly slender—as all classic Sigs are (except for the Legacy P229). And while the P245’s slide is a bit longer than a P239’s slide, in some ways the extra slide length helps it feel a bit more stable and planted in your pants.
With this simple setup, the P245 disappears AIWB
This is another reason I love the “CCO” layout (i.e., mid-length slide w/ short grip) for a carry gun: the longer slide has no impact on concealability, yet in some ways it actually aids in comfort/stability. The short grip is really what counts in terms concealability.
And the cost of that shorter, more concealable grip?
You only get 6 rounds in the mag. And while I’m not a “capacity is king” kinda guy, I’ll say that’s probably on the lower end of what I want in a carry gun as far as capacity.
Also, if you have really big hands, the short grip might not be ideal. But with the pinky extension on the mags (which is actually longer on the later mags), I think most people will be able to get a full 3-finger grip.
If 7 holes this big won’t save you… I don’t know what will
Personally, feel confident carrying 7 rounds of Earth-shattering .45 thunder on tap. With an extra mag or two for peace of mind. But hey—carry is a personal thing. If that doesn’t feel like enough for you… I get it. And for some situations, maybe it isn’t.
But, I tend to think the P245 will do the job—and do it well—for just about any concealed carry/self-defense scenario.
To that point…
I’ve found the P245 to be admirably reliable. With one caveat.
Magazines, Dimples and Reliability… Oh My
I’m gonna make this simple: when comes to P245 mags, insist on the dimple.
That rhymed. In case you missed it.
Anyway… here’s the deal with the dimples…
Since .45 ACP can slam a slide back pretty hard, you can get what’s called an “inertial feed”—that’s when the next round in the mag literally bounces forward, out of the feed lips, and subsequently fails to feed. In my experience, this phenomenon is more prevalent on compact(ish) .45s, probably because of the higher slide velocity.
The mag on the left has the dimple on the top, toward the rear of the tube
So, to prevent inertial feeds, Sig added a “dimple” to the top of ALL .45 mags at some point in the late ‘90s. The dimple hooks into the extraction groove of the round waiting to feed, which holds it in place as the slide recoils. Yeah, it’s a pretty simple solution.
But it works.
Case and Point: With my first P245 (which I sold because I was _uckin broke—not because I wanted to), I would get occasional failures to feed with NON-DIMPLED mags. Never had any FTFs with dimpled mags. In fact, I had failures to feed with my full-size P220 using non-dimpled mags with particularly hot .45 loads.
Now, only the last batches of P245s (from 2008ish) came with dimpled 6-round mags. P220Cs, on the other hand, always shipped with dimpled 6-rounders.
So…
Basically any P245 you buy—other than the rare specimens from 2008—will have NON-DIMPLED mags. Bottom line: I suggest you go online and find some dimpled mags if your P245 doesn’t include them. Which it probably won’t.
They’re not exactly cheap. But they’re not exactly a fortune either. I mean, you’re probably gonna buy some mags anyway, right? Just make sure they have dimples.
I will say I’ve never had a failure using non-dimpled mags with my CURRENT P245. At least not yet—though I shoot mainly with the dimpled mags. In fact, this P245 digested several boxes of the hot Ammo Inc. rounds that choked my P220… even with non-dimpled mags.
Nevertheless…
For carry, I will only use the dimpled mags.
Another weird thing about P245/P220C mags…
The later/dimpled mags have an inward… crimp?... in the front of the mag tube to give the mag-catch better clearance (I’m NOT talking about the dimple itself—this is a completely separate thing, now). With the earlier mags, the front part hangs up on the mag catch if you insert the mag too gingerly.
And while this tweak makes mag insertion smoother, it also means that certain wide-mouthed JHPs won’t fit in the mag. They fit in the feed lips… but when you try to push the rounds down into the mag tube, the edge of the bullet stops on that crimped-in part.
Ironically, Sig’s own V-Crown .45 JHPs don’t fit in the later P220C/P245 mags.
So, yeah… don’t use big obnoxious JHPs. And you’ll be pretty much good.
Pretentious Shmretentious
I still think fondly of that first P245 I owned, back in 2015. Sure—my reasons for wanting it, initially, may have been rooted in my pretentious desires to own the MOST obscure of all P2XX Sigs.
Which the P245 certainly is (unless, of course, you count the extremely weird P229 Carry; though that didn’t exist when I bought my first P245).
Hipster heaven
But, through my shameless pursuit of the ultimate hipster Sig, I came to discover one of my favorite pistols of all time. It’s still my favorite .45, overall. I think it always will be. Though the S&W 4506-1 is a reasonably close second.
The moral of this story?
Don’t be afraid to seek out weird guns for reasons may seem outwardly pretentious. Because you just may discover something that lets you do this:
Pretentious? Yeah, who cares…
Thank you so much for reading.
What are your thoughts on the Sig P245? Experiences? Opinions? Scathing condemnations on my review? Feel free to share below…
#hiptac
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